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Author Topic: KZClimb Rebuilt  (Read 1850 times)

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Offline -Eco

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2020, 04:59:21 pm »
Personally, I prefer KZT over GOKZ. That's mostly because I've gotten very used to using an lj bind. Other than that, I believe KZT is more friendly to new players than GOKZ because there is already a steep learning curve in KZ in general, and GOKZ just adds on to that. Also, it would be very possible for us to become global through either KZT or GOKZ, but I think we should do KZT, as we would get a larger amount of players that way. I like GOKZ as an alternative, but a large majority of KZ players play mostly on KZT. There were a lot of problems that we had on KZT before, but I believe fixing those problems and becoming global would be the better way to go.

Offline balon

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2020, 05:09:48 pm »
Added the GOKZ v. KZT comparison to the first response


Offline balon

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2020, 05:42:08 pm »
Making a few changes on the server, post to follow


Offline Carl

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2020, 05:55:20 pm »
gokz is much more fun imo. having new modes to try out on maps that i have played on kzt has been really fun, and having the option to play vnl whenever i want is a good time as well. pwease keep gokz  :-[
@COCK

Do you think this is worth the removal of:
- all the special jumps like drophop, good ljs, etc
- a good spectator list
- a good default hud
- better extends based on map rank
- etc
if im honest man, to me, that is worth it. ONLY because i get to run maps in new modes that i otherwise wouldn't be able to. with a bit of tweaking (aka just removing the center panel entirely and replacing it with mhud, something i do with kzt anyway), the hud isn't an issue for me. spec list isn't really a huge game changing thing imo. I can certainly see the case for a lack of drop bhop, etc. being an issue, and that is the main thing that is keeping me closer to the fence. im aware that i am also in the minority in this regard, but kzt gets very sleeper after a while of running the same 10 maps on the same mode day in and day out. gokz was just refreshing for what it was, and i was having fun on it /shrug


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Offline balon

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2020, 06:06:09 pm »
Added a few new plugins:
- particle pre-caching for map experience
- map extends
- tips/reminder if a timer is not started


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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2020, 06:48:46 pm »
Alright, after some consideration, a few map changes, etc -- We will be staying on GOKZ.

We will not move to KZTimer as of now, but instead stay on here for the foreseeable future.

Application to global times coming soon...


Offline balon

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2020, 07:16:59 pm »
Roundtime now displays properly to reflect server timeleft, thanks @Adam


Offline Roderick

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2020, 07:21:58 pm »
GOKZ is exactly what this server needs for a fresh start. More consistent, more features and just overall a more refined plugin.
   First off, the replay system is much better than KZTimer. For example, if you're playing a very long map and you get stuck 30+ minutes in, instead of waiting for the replay bot to loop all the way back to your specific jump, you can simply just skip to that location. Not only that, but you can rewind and watch it again as many times as you want, rather than only being able to watch the bot do the jump once continue on with the map.  Also, the KZTimer bots are always very laggy and very rarely show all of the inputs properly synced up.  GOKZ replay bots are always consistent so there's no issues there. You can also have 2 bots up at the same time, which is pretty neat.
 
   Secondly, timer tech is miles better. You can use /vbi to visualize the start and end timer radius so you can customize them perfectly as needed, and you also don't have to guess where the edge of the start and end timers are. You can also use /vb to lock them in place so you dont accidentally mess up your locations and have to redo the tech (not entirely sure if this was a feature or not in KZtimer but ill put it anyways).

   Mode selection is also a really cool addition to this plugin. You can select KZT, SKZ or VNL. KZT being the exact same movement as the old plugin, and it is the default, meaning there should be no issues for new players that happen to join not having played kz often enough to know the difference. SKZ is minorly different to KZT movement, the only difference being how prespeed works and the bhop prespeed cap. VNL is just vanilla movement, exact same settings as on regular csgo mm and other non movement related servers. With these selectable modes there's also more maps you can run, such as maps with skz or vnl prefixes.

   Another section of GOKZ that is completely void in KZTimer is bonuses. Most newer maps have bonuses, but in KZTimer, the timers for those bonuses don't work. A map could have 4-5 bonuses in it and on KZTimer you wouldn't be able to run any of them. I guess you can just run them without the timer but that takes a lot of the satisfaction away, so they usually stay completely untouched in KZTimer.

   On the topic of jumpstats, I think GOKZ is also better. Some people say they don't like GOKZ because the bind doesn't work, but it does. You still get perfect W release, the only difference is you don't get the extra height from the crouch jump. For people who use binds in runs and think they won't be able to do certain jumps anymore, that's also not a problem because the bind also never gives crouch jump height with timer on in KZTimer, so the change wont affect your map running at all in that sense. Another thing is since bind doesn't give extra height in jumpstatting (and you also can't jumpbug blocks on GOKZ to get the extra 2 units), the plugin compensates by lowering all of the ownage stats by atleast several units (such as lj being lowered from 285 to 280 flat). Not only that, but there's an entirely unique tier of jumpstats to GOKZ just above ownage called wrecker. You can hit a wrecker in any stat, but they're quite difficult to hit (282 for lj). If you're not sure how to view your pbs, you can do the abbreviation for the stat and then pb to see your pb for that stat on the mode you currently have selected (Example: /ljpb for longjump pb or /lwjpb for low pre weird jump pb).

   A few quality of life changes GOKZ brings to the table are massive aswell, such as the fact that the undo tp button works 99% percent of the time instead of being extremely inconsistent like in KZTimer. This has saved me in so many runs and it's just really nice to be able to know that button will work instead of praying. Also /nc works at any point rather than you needing to run the map first, so you can actually practice jumps before running or just use it to check out the map. Something I think that was specific to tango that is fixed in GOKZ is zones being fixed. Previously, start and end zones didn't really work at all so there we're some maps that you just couldn't run on tango.

   Also, I seen that there's a potential effort for a reglobal on the server. If that's the case, GOKZ is one-hundred percent the way to go. KZTimer is not only outdated, but GOKZ is eventually going to be getting a global profile revamp, making global profiles viewable ingame from GOKZ servers and all GOKZ times and jumpstats will be viewable from those profiles. You'll also be able to do commands to view specific global map pbs ingame, which is a super cool feature for players who are interested in getting global times and whatnot.

   From the get go though, some things that would help if added are nightvision and flashlight: Some maps are extremely dark or have extremely dark sections and you pretty much need a bit of extra light to see anything. Nightvision is a super useful plugin that turns up your ingame brightness. You can do /nv to turn it on and /nvg to set the nightvision mode that you most prefer. If not nightvision, atleast add flashlight. It's not near as good but there should be atleast one of these on the server.

   There's a few downsides to quality of life coming from KZTimer though with GOKZ, unfortunately, as it isn't a perfect plugin by any means. For example, if you teleport while in a spot where you're forced to crouch because there is a block over your head, sometimes you will get stuck. The best way to fix this in a run is to do prev checkpoint until you go back to a tp where you were standing fully, then you can do next cp until you get back to where you were. Also, sometimes the teleport menu will just randomly disappear, and you'll have to wait a few seconds for it to come back.

Overall, I think this change is a massive improvement and is a big step towards helping this server thrive. Hopefully this will help people who don't really know much about GOKZ and are skeptical of the change a bit more enthusiastic, and if anyone has any specific questions about GOKZ, ask away. I don't know everything there is to know about the plugin but I'm sure there's things I missed in this little essay.




Offline oGChRoMa

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2020, 11:14:24 pm »
***DISCLIAMER*** Stuff in the post below is 100% my opinion and make not be 100% factual information. Please don't take this like I know everything about GOKZ because personally I don't like GOKZ and have always played on KZT.


In my opinion I like KZT a lot more, I know it has issues regarding the timer it's self and maps. However when I first played GOKZ when the server was rebuilt I noticed a lot of differences. First my biggest issue with GOKZ ever when I am on the KZT gamemode, the server just feels like air strafing / prestrafe is really weird. In my opinion it I feel like the air has a lot of friction to it and gaining speed in the air is more skill based and difficult. The reason I enjoyed Tango World Wide's KZ so much more is because it was more unique than all those Global Servers out there. It was more casual and a place to hangout and play KZ, you didn't have to be a GOD at KZ to have fun where on Global Servers I feel like you had to be pretty damn good at KZ to have fun. I came to Tango World Wide's KZ after being an official member for so long and I had no clue about KZ what so ever. I joined and the only movement practice I had was from Jailbreak. I enjoyed KZT so much because it was simple, and more casual. I didn't have to know how to do all kinds of techniques to have a chance, I didn't have to be a master at jumpstating, etc. Now from playing on KZT I have moved on to becoming a SA for the server. As well as hitting some server records (Which I lost before the server changed) and hitting a 280 LJ. However now that it has gone to GOKZ I feel like it takes a lot more skill and it's harder to jumpstat. I struggle to hit 265+ LJs and the server in my opinion is a lot less fun than before. I know in the long run this may help the server and all and it will fix maps that were previously broken due to the starts not having buttons but zones instead. I know it has also fixed Bonuses on maps. However I have also ran into a few maps that were broken on GOKZ which weren't on KZT.

I know the section above was a bunch of rambling however the section below is the more important section (THIS IS ALL MY OPINION):

Stuff I like about GOKZ:
  • Fixed maps that were previously broken.
  • Added gamemodes
  • Made it more skill based
  • Fixed a decent amount of bugs
  • You can crouch bhop and perf with simpleKZ

STAFF I DON'T LIKE ABOUT GOKZ
  • Removed the profile section where you could see your map times, jumpstats, etc.
  • Removed drop bhop stats, and ladder jump stats.
  • Made it harder for new players to play casually because movement is more skill based.
  • No !tier commands
  • Jumpstating is harder and less fun.
  • Running maps in my opinion is also less fun.
  • It just feels weird in general. I don't really know how to explain this. However I have talked to like 6 other people now who have also said it just feels weird.
  • The gamemodes split the server for records, and runners. It feel like it would be harder for some admins / players to teach players new techniques or how to do a jump because they may not be able to do them on the gamemode which that person they are teaching is playing on.
  • The new admin commands system is weird.
  • The GOKZ menu is kinda lame
  • No distbug / strafestats

This is just my list and it is completely my own opinion some things may just be harder to find and I have not found them. However this is my honest opinion on the server, Balon has done a great job setting it up however the Plugin just makes me not want to play KZ anymore. I can't wait to see some of your opinions on the server!

« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 05:45:28 pm by oGChRoMa »
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Offline Dos.

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2020, 04:17:05 pm »
may you add !playtime my good sir  :)
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Offline Aspire

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2020, 04:43:49 pm »
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@oGChRoMa Since this is such an idiotic list, let's go through all of your points, one by one.

PROS:
Fixed maps that were previously broken.
Maps don't break whether it's gokz or kzt.

Added Gamemodes
Nothing against it, completely true.

Made it more skill based.
How?? If you're on a KZT server and a GOKZ server and you're playing the KZT mode, running a map is still the same difficulty regardless, are you saying KZT gives you some sort of miraculous power?

Fixed a decent amount of bugs.
This is true, GOKZ rolls out bug fixes before KZTimer rolls out the same bug fixes.

You can crouch bhop and perf with SimpleKZ
This is a mode specific change, KZT has things that SKZ doesn't, and vice versa, this pro makes no sense on this list.


CONS:
Removed the profile section where you could see your map times, jumpstats, etc.
You can still check your jumpstat PBs through specific commands, same for your PBs on maps.

Removed drop bhop stats, and ladder jump stats.
The ladderjump stat still exists, maybe you should try not going on an offset ladder. As for dropbhops, they were the same thing as normal bhops and there is no point in keeping that stat, now that bhops and weirdjumps have "high pre" variants. GOKZ also has the Ladderhop stat which KZT servers don't have.

Made it harder for new players to play casually because movement is more skill based.
How?????? You realize how fucking dumb this point is? The movement in KZT servers and GOKZ servers is the exact same, casual players still experience the same game regardless aside from the different gamemodes. If anything the only thing that changes is your IQ dropping by 50 points.

No !tier commands
Have you tried typing the command in? Or are you that stupid?

Jumpstatting is harder and less fun.
Why? Because you can't use your precious lj bind to hit those 268s? Are you that bad that you rely on a bind to aide you through everything?

Running maps in my opinion is also less fun.
Once again, there is absolutely no fucking change between the 2 plugins if you're playing on the KZT mode. It only becomes less fun because you are completely unaware of what mode you are playing.

It just feels weird in general. I don't really know how to explain this. However I have talked to like 6 other people now who have also said it just feels weird.
If you don't know how to explain it then it's not a con, it's your own opinion.

The gamemodes split the server for records, and runners. It feel like it would be harder for some admins / players to teach players new techniques or how to do a jump because they may not be able to do them on the gamemode which that person they are teaching is playing on.
There are 3 separate leaderboards for 3 different gamemodes, it's not harder to check anytime, it's completely organized and fully functional. Teaching new techniques to players is only difficult if you're shit at teaching, and they can literally look at the scoreboard to see what gamemode you are playing.

The new admin commands system is weird.
I don't have any counter to this because I have not seen the commands system, but as far as I am aware there is no discernable change from the commands.

The GOKZ menu is kinda lame
It has more functionality and customization than a KZT menu, you can also use mhud, it's only lame if you can't navigate through them, which isn't hard to do at all.

No distbug / strafestats
This is such a stupid point that it needs to be addressed. GOKZ Jumpstats show overlap (OL) and dead air (DA) by default, and they show it for every jumpstat no matter what. If you're in a KZT server and use distbug, it only shows the realdist value and OL / DA for jumps that are below 300 Units, this means it only shows the aforementioned values for longjumps, weirdjumps without a perf and 275 pre, Bhops with no perf, and multibhops without a perf, whereas in GOKZ, you will see OL and DA for every stat, be it a multihop, weirdjump, ladderjump, etc.

To address one more thing, you say you went from a 280 LJ to a 265 on gokz, that only happened because you're bad at the game, gokz jumpstats are realdist and 55 height, so if you binded and bugged it, you get a maximum of 5 units to your gokz jump. So that's another fault in your argument. I would like to see your reply to my counter to your absolutely horrendous list of pros and cons, I will be waiting!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 04:59:44 pm by Rangii »

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2020, 05:16:45 pm »
Didn't expect a kz post to get so heated but here we are

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2020, 06:14:11 pm »
@Aspire just because your opinion doesn't match his, does not mean you should be mindlessly insulting him for 0 reason

To everyone that wants GOKZ: You are getting a private server, have fun. You win!

To everyone that wants KZT: You are getting a server, have fun. You win!

Thanks again @balon  for all the hard work. Glad to see KZ rising again.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 06:40:22 pm by Refrigerator »

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2020, 06:20:33 pm »
Didn't expect a kz post to get so heated but here we are

smile and wave, ladies and gents, smile and wave.


can we please the playtime plugin from the other servers as dos said? dunno if we had it on the other server but it'd be a good addition.


some kind of hours/connection time plugin, just for playtime reference.

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« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 06:28:20 pm by Silver. »
yey

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Re: KZClimb Rebuilt
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2020, 06:25:37 pm »

can we please the playtime plugin from the other servers as dos said? dunno if we had it on the other server but it'd be a good addition.

@Silver. kz runs of game tracker, not gameme

 

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