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Author Topic: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules  (Read 379 times)

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Offline Aycliffe

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    aycliffe.tw

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Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« on: June 25, 2019, 12:22:05 pm »
1. Describe the Suggestion: An improved, less wordy and fat rulebook while maintaining 99% of the same rules.
2. Related link(s): Read.

Global Rules
-Rule 7 is covered by Rule 5, just add swearing to rule 5.
-Remove rule 9, unneeded. This can be warned and punished for as it is heavily admin discretion.
-Remove rule 11, it is not a rule but something that should be covered in TangoAds ingame.
-Remove Rule 12 is stated in application acceptance- if players don't carefully read it it is their problem.
-Consider removing rule 13 for the sake of having a short rulebook. It is stated in TangoAds like once a minute- anyone with more than 15 minutes of playtime would've read it by now.

General Rules
-Remove rule 2, it is common sense to report a player if he is heavily harassing you. Again, put this in TangoAds to be more effective.
-Rule 3 is so rare that it does not need to be clogging the rulebook, remove it. Admins can kick as needed, they will understand.
-Rule 4 is stated in application information in the application center, does not need to be there. Could also be added to TangoAds.
-Again, rule 5 is followed by the same point I made in rule 13 of removable global rules. These are repetitive.
-Remove rule 6, it is covered by the common sense rule.

Rules for Everyone
-Consider removal of rule 3 for the sake of having a short rulebook, players know what this is and new players learn this fast.
-Remove rule 4, nobody follows it, it isn't enforced, and doesn't need to be in the rulebook. If players want assistance they can properly report their own problems.
-Rule 5 can simply be explained in game and is common sense. If an admin swaps you, you should not simply swap back. Common sense goes a long way.
-Remove the last part of rule 8, it is common sense to have integrity when reporting and could just be one line.
-Remove the entire last sentence sof rule 9, it is repetitive as the first words state "All last requests must be fair".
-Rule 10 is always warned for in game and is covered by the mic spam rule, is removable.
-Remove rule 11, it is covered by rule 1 of global rules.
-Remove rule the last sentence of rule 15, admins know this and regular players don't need to know this. It should be in admin handbook. Clogs rules.

Warden Rules
-Remove rule 1, all wardens know this and any new player can see the players typing !w in chat. If they do not know how to take warden after that, they are not ready to do so.
-Consider shortening rule 7, it is very long and certainly clogs the rulebook.
-Rule 9 should state: Wardens may not do a minigame for last request with more than 5 people if they can guarantee more than 1 survivor.
-Rule 13 is stated in rule 7, remove it.
-Rule 14 is common sense and is done on a play-by-play basis.

Guard Rules
-Remove the last part of this rule that threatens punishment, clearly all rules will result in punishment.
-Remove rule 3, it is common sense. If they do not know this they do not need to be on CT.
-Remove the punishment threat of rule 7 for the sake of clarity and not clogging.
-Rule 15 covered by rule 1, remove it.
-Rule 18 is common sense, however, the baiting part should remain. Everything else is unneeded and clogs the rulebook.
-There is absolutely no purpose of rule 19 other than clogging. It is implied that the T may LR at the end.
-Rule 22 doesn't really need to be in the rulebook, just a functionality that is unstated for the sake of not clogging.

Terrorist Rules
-Good as is.

3. Possible positive impacts: People will actually read the rules, and the rules will be easier to maintain and change for the divisional staff.
4. Possible negative impacts: Some rules are lost in the process, however, these rules are pretty much useless and covered by common sense as stated.
5. Which Division/Server will this idea affect: CS:GO Jailbreak and global rules so executives.
6. Tag the respective Staff member(s): (div staff, div managers, web admin, etc.): @Axel @dot @E-vageene @balon @Alex

Please do keep in mind each rule suggestion is individual and should be treated as such, and each rule I revise should be decided on a rule by rule basis rather than all together.
 :bbtduckshark: :bbtduckshark: :bbtduckshark:
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 01:24:43 pm by Aycliffe »
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Rewritten-Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2019, 01:47:09 pm »
I'll be going over this, just to add my opinions. If I don't quote the rule implementation, then I agree with it.


The only important thing that needs fixed is adding line-spacing on the MOTD. It kills my eye(s) when I try to read this mess of organization.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 01:48:56 pm by Arcturus »

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Offline Aycliffe

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Re: Rewritten-Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2019, 02:36:20 pm »
@Arcturus First off- I appreciate the amount of effort you put into your thoughts. I would just to make something clear of being the main goal of this is not to change rules or get rid of any- it's simply to shorten it to make reading it look less threatening. There's no point of having all of the redundant rules as well, as I pointed out there are rules that are said 3 times in 3 different rules but they're the exact same thing. Even if it was only these rules that were removed I would see this as a success and a massive improvement to the rulebook.
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Re: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2019, 04:33:18 pm »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll go through these point by point.

Global rules:
-Spamming and loud noises are two entirely different things and consequently have their own seperate rules. Merging the two would only serve for formatting purposes.
-Rule 9 is needed because it's presence in the MOTD is exactly what gives admins the discretion in order to be able to act on it.
-Rule 11 can be served well in both Tango Ads as well as the MOTD. Your suggestion is not necessarily for tango ads but for changing the MOTD, so I will comment on that. Unneeded.
-Rule 12 having an acceptance rule repeated in the MOTD is not redundant. It's important information that people may need to know, especially because JB admins act on this rule every now and again.
-Rule 13 is important as it provides a welcoming message to people in the community.

General Rules:
-Rule 2 Being in the MOTD is important as it provides information of what to do if people are on the targeted end of harassment when they might not have access to that info anywhere else because admins are on.
-Rule 3 this being in the MOTD is what gives admins the power to kick for that reason. The more "unwritten" rules we have for the admins, the more confused people may get. Admins are not meant to act on things that "people will understand" because thats heavily subjective and prone to debate.
-Rule 4 Again, important information for newer players.
-Rule 5 this is pretty redundant.
-Rule 6 We don't have admins acting on "common sense" because it differs from admin to admin. I feel I'll be repeating this a lot, but the nitty gritty rules are in there to provide admins with a sense of direction. If we got rid of these rules and just let admins do their thing with "common sense" we would have many disagreements.

Rules for Everyone:
-Rule 3 carries an important distinction when players are asking for a 1up for example. Admins refer to this quite frequently so it should stay.
-Rule 4 is especially important as it lets players know they can come for an admin for help, but also explains an admins perspective.
-Rule 5 this is probably one of our more important rules that we should not absolutely get rid of. It provides an appropriate length of time to stay off CT for both the admin and the CT who was swapped. It should still be explained in game when asked, but it being in the rules is again, is what gives direction to admins of how long it should be for.
-Rule 8 Pretty important to encourage players to be honest.
-Rule 9 explains HOW lrs should be fair.
-Rule 10 This is not covered anywhere else. It is possible to talk over the warden without being excessively loud or spamming it. It is important to distinguish and should stay.
-Rule 11 Indeed repetitive.
-Rule 15 is there so admins can refer to it if they have any questions.

Warden Rules:
-Rule 1 is there so we dont leave new players who might want to warden lying in the dust.
-Rule 7 is so long because these things are important to distinguish.
-Rule 9 the wording is fine as it is. Is it really worth rephrasing it to be more confusing to save a line of text?
-Rule 13 was added for more clarification of when it can be called and what exactly it is. Pretty lengthy, but necessary to distinguish.
-Rule 14 this isnt common sense for new players who may have questions. Important to distinguish so it should stay.

Guard rules:
-Rule 3 see above or below for the "common sense" argument.
-Rule 7 it is necessary as it outlines what CTs can or cant do, and provides the appropriate guidance for admins on what to do if they find themselves in that situation.
-Rule 15 is not covered by rule 1, and furthermore provides an important explanation of exactly what CTs can or cant do.
-Rule 18 see above or below for "common sense" argument.
-Rule 19 important to distinguish as players may not know.
-Rule 22 provides admin guidance.

I'm going to address a few things here. Firstly, there are maybe one or two rules that are repetitive. Everything else is necessary for the following reasons:

You used the argument that we should remove a fair bulk of our rules because they are "common sense." "Common sense" will differ between an admin staff of upwards of 15+ people. It will cause debates, arguments and issues with interpreting the rules that no doubt players will abuse to their advantage. Without clear rules that outline all of the nitty gritty stuff, new players would get confused, people would argue with admins more because their "common sense" is different from an admins "common sense", and newer admins would be left out in the dark for how to handle certain situations. Admins need the information of what exactly a vent is for example when rendering a decision. Admins need to know when to be able to call a S4D vote and can point to it concretely in the MOTD when people keep spamming it in the chat.

The MOTD is specific for a reason. If you don't like how clunky it is that's why we recommend using the CNTRL+F button that comes available with windows operating systems. Yes it's a pain in the ass to read, but its a cumulative document spamming the length of a few years to better help our players and admins understand the server. It would be much better if people could point to a specific rule instead of "common sense".

There are a few things that should be deleted for the sake of repetitiveness, but for the most part, a hard -devouch.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 04:35:47 pm by ris »
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Offline Aycliffe

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Re: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2019, 04:49:15 pm »
I don't mean to sound toxic but you just outlined the need for an admin handbook and good admin communication, that's really it. @E-vageene Regular players do not need to know admin protocol, there is an admin handbook for a reason- it shouldn't only be used for commands etc. It should serve as an admin school and it should be more emphasized during mentorship to ensure all admins remain on the same page.
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Re: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 04:57:35 pm »
I don't mean to sound toxic but you just outlined the need for an admin handbook and good admin communication, that's really it. @E-vageene Regular players do not need to know admin protocol, there is an admin handbook for a reason- it shouldn't only be used for commands etc. It should serve as an admin school and it should be more emphasized during mentorship to ensure all admins remain on the same page.

Your suggestion wasnt for either of these things, just for removing them from the MOTD.

As for your argument in some instances it would be beneficial for players to know some admin protocols. Take S4D for example and how often people spam it in chat. All admins would need to do would refer them to the exact rule in the MOTD to avoid players spamming for something to happen. Being in the MOTD provides more understanding for the players for the stuff that directly affects them.

Good communication will not solve the "common sense" problem as described above as people will disagree with eachother. Having these things outlined concretely in the MOTD prevents the chaos that would occur as a result. Some players would still also abuse it to their advantage because "common sense" is so HEAVILY dependent on interpretation. That's not a problem that even the best communication could fix.
This is prob gunna be my last thing ever posting on this server unless I come back but anyone ever notice how if you Switch the X and the L on Axel you get Alex???? just a thought... Bye guys!!!!


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Re: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 05:13:42 pm »
This seems really unnecessary. The JB players who would read through the MOTD aren't the ones that would be confused by the formatting/wording.

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Re: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2019, 06:36:39 pm »
This seems really unnecessary. The JB players who would read through the MOTD aren't the ones that would be confused by the formatting/wording.
Which is why the jailbreak players who are confused by them become disruptive, even if unintentionally.

@E-vageene you ignored everything I said. You aren't listening to me, so i'll just leave what you said there bc it isn't progressive it's just trying to stop the entire suggestion when on the bottom I clearly said that it should be dealt with on a rule by rule basis, not the entirety of the suggestion itself. I am not saying that everything needs to be implemented, I'm just outlining the rules that could be better, reduced, or removed.
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Re: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2019, 05:05:38 pm »
I don't mean to sound toxic but you just outlined the need for an admin handbook and good admin communication, that's really it. @E-vageene Regular players do not need to know admin protocol, there is an admin handbook for a reason- it shouldn't only be used for commands etc. It should serve as an admin school and it should be more emphasized during mentorship to ensure all admins remain on the same page.
You haven't been around long enough to understand why these rules are listed and why they wont be removed.
So much easier to send a player to the MOTD and give them a rule # to read to understand why an admin did something than making the player read through the entire handbook.


Not meaning to offend you but what you've listed just shows you're new and haven't had to deal with a lot of problem players. It's because of those players from the past, and those who still play that things are listed in the MOTD.
"Common sense" really isn't that common, too many players have issues with rules so we have to list and specify literally everything. It's like that to help our admins so most of what you have listed wont be getting changed.

Will talk with Axel and E-vageene at some point and see what we need to actually change.

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Re: Rewritten and Removable Jailbreak Rules
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2019, 06:23:08 pm »
I don't mean to sound toxic but you just outlined the need for an admin handbook and good admin communication, that's really it. @E-vageene Regular players do not need to know admin protocol, there is an admin handbook for a reason- it shouldn't only be used for commands etc. It should serve as an admin school and it should be more emphasized during mentorship to ensure all admins remain on the same page.
You haven't been around long enough to understand why these rules are listed and why they wont be removed.
So much easier to send a player to the MOTD and give them a rule # to read to understand why an admin did something than making the player read through the entire handbook.


Not meaning to offend you but what you've listed just shows you're new and haven't had to deal with a lot of problem players. It's because of those players from the past, and those who still play that things are listed in the MOTD.
"Common sense" really isn't that common, too many players have issues with rules so we have to list and specify literally everything. It's like that to help our admins so most of what you have listed wont be getting changed.

Will talk with Axel and E-vageene at some point and see what we need to actually change.

Sounds good to me you can lock this.
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