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Author Topic: [Closed] E-Vageene Report (again)  (Read 257 times)

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Offline Arcturus

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[Closed] E-Vageene Report (again)
« on: May 11, 2019, 06:00:11 pm »
Your In-Game Name: ivarcturus
Abusing Admin: E-Vageene
Server this occurred on: Jailbreak
Time of occurrence (Date and Time, Map and Round): ~4:50 PM EST, 5/11/19
What was abused: Slay and 1-up
What happened (Be detailed): Orders are given on a supposed good day, and doors open. Someone tosses a smoke into a vent cell and E-Vageene follows (because she was going straight and went left) and attempts to go through the vent (she backs into the cell). Now, there is a rule that states:
Quote
CTs may not shoot into smokes with non-rebelling Ts in them. (This is to refrain from the possibility of free-shooting.)
This rule is important to counter-attack the claims that I shouldn't have shot through the smoke.
Since E-vageene followed the rebeller in an attempt to go through the vent, ShadoFaia starts spraying in there. I come along and start tap-firing in the cell and then I kill E-vageene. Then I am slayed for it, which to what she says is, "I couldn't see". That does not excuse her going into the vent cell and attempting to follow the rebeller who was pursuing a vent. It does not also excuse them from slaying me and 1-upping themselves when they were clearly in the wrong from the start they entered the vent cell. It doesn't matter if she couldn't see where the vent is; E-vageene knew the vent was in that cell. The round goes to hell by this point because I was slayed nearby cells where T's often would go. By this point, it's apparent they haven't learned from the last report.
Provide necessary proof (Demolinks are NOT sufficient evidence): https://youtu.be/MhVe56iKxhI
I hereby agree to follow the guidelines set-forth above(Agree/Disagree): Agree
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 04:26:37 am by asta »

Offline E-vageene

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Re: E-Vageene Report (again)
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 09:11:32 pm »
Thank you for posting the demo from my perspective so it would save me the trouble of going back and looking for it. Now then, going directly into the rules:

1. "No detours or delays" is implied on all orders. (Purposely waiting to try and provoke an action from a CT or lagging behind the rest of the group.)

As I explained to you, this was not on purpose, which you can also see in the video. I was trying to leave. The back of the cell was not smoked so if I was truly was going for the vent, I would've been inside instead of trying to figure a way out. Which I couldn't tell where the exit was because of the smoke. Again, if I was truly trying to find the vent I would have turned away from the direction of all the T's in the main lobby area near four couches / the terracotta line in an attempt to find the vent. This would not make me be considered to be a rebel, which I tried explaining to you.

6. A T in armory, knifing, or inside of a vent is deemed a rebel. (This also includes certain teleporters which can be clarified by admins upon request.)

I was not in a vent. I was not knifing nor was I inside of the vent, nor was I heading towards the vent, which you couldnt see because of the smoke. Accidentally (refer above) ending up in it when the main pathway to the downstairs is not rebelling. Starting to spray and 1-tap into the smoke without checking what was actually going on was your mistake. Citing your own rule:

CTs may not shoot into smokes with non-rebelling Ts in them. (This is to refrain from the possibility of free-shooting.)

You had no idea that there were no non-rebelling T's in there. For one, someone couldve been afk in the cell. Secondly, accidentally (and ill put it in big bold letters for you to reiterate) landing in the cell is not enough to declare someone a rebel. In which case you and ShadoFaia shouldnt've been shooting regardless.

For reference, my vision became blurry because of the smoke and I pressed the back key to try to get out of it. Stupid, I know, but I truly wasn't aware that it was indeed a vent cell. I thought the only one was on the top left corner. However, this wasn't the reason that I slayed you and 1upped myself. The assumption that you have of me knowing and being purposely malicious is unfortunate. Had you asked for more clarification I gladly would have given it to you. Instead, all you did was message me on steam afterwards and say "Really?" Admins deal with people asking for clarifications throughout the day so at least for me, personally, I keep it brief. If you wanted me to point out to you why I wasn't considered a rebel citing the exact rules, I gladly would have done so. I also think it's unfortunate that you can't see that people grow from past mistakes, and continue to use that against me. If an admin actively tries to rebel and slays being killed for it, that would certainly be erroneous indeed. However, I think it's clear your past judgments of me influenced you to see something that isn't really there. If I slayed people who punished me for rebelling, I don't think I would get very far in Tango.

Your argument of me actively rebelling falls apart when you take a look at your own demo. You can clearly see I was in no way shape or form attempting to actually go inside the vent. The question for IA at this point remains on whether or not accidentally ending up near a smoked vent counts as active rebelling. The rules, as they are laid out currently, led me to believe that this wasn't the case. As of now, we have no explicit rule saying that rushing a vent, either purposely or accidentally results in being considered a rebel, though implicitly we agree that if a T purposely rushes a vent they get killed. It's more unclear for accidental happenings. However, ending up in the cell under our current MOTD in rules was not enough, imo, to be justified being a rebel. As stated earlier, I wasn't knifing or inside of the vent, I wasn't even looking in the direction of where the vent was, I didn't even try to actively look for it. In addition, logically speaking, if I WAS going towards the vent, shooting the doorway would have been moot because you couldn'tve gotten an angle on me if I rushed deeper inside the cell.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 09:33:27 pm by E-vageene »
This is prob gunna be my last thing ever posting on this server unless I come back but anyone ever notice how if you Switch the X and the L on Axel you get Alex???? just a thought... Bye guys!!!!


To those of you talking shit above, 90 percent of you mother fuckers are fake af, and talk shit behind people’s back. I kept quiet for awhile to avoid getting banned, but at this point 🤷‍♀️  Many of you made my last month or so in tango shitty, and well karmas a bitch and you deserve what you’ve got coming.


Offline Arcturus

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Re: E-Vageene Report (again)
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2019, 11:21:57 pm »
You had no idea that there were no non-rebelling T's in there. For one, someone couldve been afk in the cell. Secondly, accidentally (and ill put it in big bold letters for you to reiterate) landing in the cell is not enough to declare someone a rebel. In which case you and ShadoFaia shouldnt've been shooting regardless.

Yes, I had the idea that there were no non-rebelling T’s in there. By that time the vent was already broken and I knew that cell was empty. Should  a T to enter in there, it’s 99% sure they are rebelling to or are attempting to rebel. You can’t give the “there’s an afk” excuse if I already knew that there were no T’s in there. You singled me out (whether that be accidental or not) and gave me the slay whereas Shado didn’t receive any punishment. You didn’t bother to check logs or the console even, to whomever damaged you, and you quickly 1-upped yourself and slayed me. That’s my point, because it’s a direct reference to what happened last time. Yes, landing in a cell doesn’t make you a rebel. But the fact is you backed up into the cell and from my point, I chose to kill you, because you were attempting to rebel in my view. If you just have gave it a few more seconds to think, “gosh, what did I do to get killed”, and realize that you most likely got killed for backing into the vent cell (to which you admit), this wouldn’t have happened. For all I cared, you could have just 1upped yourself and I would have been fine with it.

I also think it's unfortunate that you can't see that people grow from past mistakes, and continue to use that against me. If an admin actively tries to rebel and slays being killed for it, that would certainly be erroneous indeed. However, I think it's clear your past judgments of me influenced you to see something that isn't really there.

You’re gladly contradicting yourself from how you’ve treated me before, on the server, and anywhere else. You bring up “history of mutes” in the chat, when majority of them was when you weren’t here. I can tell you I’ve been muted for “micspam” in your sense (which doesn’t make sense, considering micspam literally means continuously repeating and saying the same thing or screaming into your mic for more than 2 seconds) 3 times, and that hasn’t happened in 2 weeks, to which you weren’t on.

Your argument of me actively rebelling falls apart when you take a look at your own demo. You can clearly see I was in no way shape or form attempting to actually go inside the vent. The question for IA at this point remains on whether or not accidentally ending up near a smoked vent counts as active rebelling. The rules, as they are laid out currently, led me to believe that this wasn't the case. As of now, we have no explicit rule saying that rushing a vent, either purposely or accidentally results in being considered a rebel, though implicitly we agree that if a T purposely rushes a vent they get killed. It's more unclear for accidental happenings. However, ending up in the cell under our current MOTD in rules was not enough, imo, to be justified being a rebel. As stated earlier, I wasn't knifing or inside of the vent, I wasn't even looking in the direction of where the vent was, I didn't even try to actively look for it. In addition, logically speaking, if I WAS going towards the vent, shooting the doorway would have been moot because you couldn'tve gotten an angle on me if I rushed deeper inside the cell.

I’ve already stated this. Though I did not see you fully rushing through the cell, it was apparent you were attempting to rebel or follow the other T that tossed the smoke and pursued the vent.
Although there is no rule for a T to be considered a rebeller if they sit in a cell with a vent or near a secret, it would be common sense to kill them if, by a reasonable doubt, they rush it or go to it after cells and orders have been opened/given. In your logic, you seem to think that to be actively looking for a vent you have to be moving your mouse, to which is incorrect. As I’ve said before, in my perspective, you followed a T into a cell that had a vent. As I’ve again stated before, the vent was already broken. Thus, I sprayed into the cell because I knew those who were in there were 99% rebelling.

TL;DR: Don’t be quick to punish people and take others perspectives.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 11:23:32 pm by Arcturus »

Offline E-vageene

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Re: E-Vageene Report (again)
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2019, 01:15:51 am »
Yes, landing in a cell doesn’t make you a rebel. But the fact is you backed up into the cell and from my point, I chose to kill you, because you were attempting to rebel in my view.
So you killed me for doing something that wasn't making me a rebel but for attempting to rebel? If you take a look at our MOTD, there is absolutely nothing about attempting to rebel. It's pretty clear cut on what's considered rebelling and what is not. Knifing a vent? Rebelling. Rushing a CT? Rebelling. Purposely delaying? Rebelling. I'd like to see you point out a rule to me that says if a T accidentally ends up near a vent, and not in it, you can kill them.
whereas Shado didn’t receive any punishment.

Shado wasn't the one who freekilled. You did.

You bring up “history of mutes” in the chat, when majority of them was when you weren’t here. I can tell you I’ve been muted for “micspam” in your sense (which doesn’t make sense, considering micspam literally means continuously repeating and saying the same thing or screaming into your mic for more than 2 seconds) 3 times, and that hasn’t happened in 2 weeks, to which you weren’t on.

I have muted you myself and have seen other admins mute you, while I have been playing on the server over the past couple of weeks. Your definition of mic spam isn't anywhere in the MOTD, but I think a compelling case can be made that you indiscriminately screaming into your mic nearly every time you die would count. Is it back to back? No. But it's excessive, unnecessary, and can certainly be constructed as mic spam especially considering you do it for a good amount of rounds. I know this because I've spoken with other admins who've muted you. I myself have muted you three times over the past little while, because I've been on, contrary to your claim. I would do the same to anyone doing the same thing on the server. Which I have. Multiple times. If you think me following the rules and muting you for breaking them is me targeting you, I don't think I have good news for you. You filling a report on me does not give you the right to break rules and me to give you a free pass whenever you are on. If you really felt this way, you should have filed a report earlier if you believed I was targeting you. Regardless, this didn't factor in to me targeting you. The decision was based on the fact that you freekilled, nothing more.

you seem to think that to be actively looking for a vent you have to be moving your mouse, to which is incorrect.  As I’ve said before, in my perspective, you followed a T into a cell that had a vent. As I’ve again stated before, the vent was already broken.

Using your own argument, you didn't even bother to check if I was rebelling or not. You just sprayed me down indiscriminately. Following this rule:

CTs may not shoot into smokes with non-rebelling Ts in them. (This is to refrain from the possibility of free-shooting.)

Thus, I sprayed into the cell because I knew those who were in there were 99% rebelling.
So you knew there was a 1% portion of T's NOT rebelling and sprayed into the stack anyway? That makes no logical sense, and by your own admission, you were breaking the rules.

In any case, me not moving my mouse is exactly evidence of me not rebelling. Because I wasn't moving my mouse you could absolutely see that I wasn't actively looking for the vent to get inside it. Ergo, not rebelling. From your perspective, you didn't even bother to check if I was actively rebelling, you had just assumed.

Although there is no rule for a T to be considered a rebeller if they sit in a cell with a vent or near a secret, it would be common sense to kill them if, by a reasonable doubt, they rush it or go to it after cells and orders have been opened/given.
First of all, it's beyond a reasonable doubt, and beyond a reasonable doubt is typically meant to mean a 95% confidence interval, which again, when you review the demo you can see I was not rebelling. Even from your perspective, the fact that there was smoke in the cell left it up in the air enough to not meet the aforementioned standard. I'll agree that rushing vents beyond a reasonable doubt is a very sensible thing to do, but that was not the case in this scenario.

Beyond that, I'm not going to reply to this thread. I've responded in full pointing out the relevant MOTD rules that would suggest I was not technically rebelling. Though you may interpret it differently, it is up to IA to decide. If you have issues with multiple admins muting you for screaming into your mic nearly every time you die and taking this to mean as "targeting", I would recommend you make a second post.

This is prob gunna be my last thing ever posting on this server unless I come back but anyone ever notice how if you Switch the X and the L on Axel you get Alex???? just a thought... Bye guys!!!!


To those of you talking shit above, 90 percent of you mother fuckers are fake af, and talk shit behind people’s back. I kept quiet for awhile to avoid getting banned, but at this point 🤷‍♀️  Many of you made my last month or so in tango shitty, and well karmas a bitch and you deserve what you’ve got coming.


Offline asta

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Re: E-Vageene Report (again)
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2019, 04:24:17 am »
After consulting with the IA team, we have come to a conclusion.


@E-vageene Despite how confusing the round was, it would seem that you weren't blatantly rebelling, or in the vents.

@Arcturus you should not have been spraying or tapping into a smoke when the cell itself isn't considered rebellious. She could have been just walking by the smoke and you still would have killed her, when she wasn't rebelling. The only scenario where this would have been better is if you 100% knew that every T in the smoke is a rebeller. In this case, you did not. You also cannot pursue off "common sense" in our JB server, because that would make it very boring. You have to physically see them rebelling/entering a vent to be able to pursue, not just see them walk into the room with the vent in it. The slay and 1up was absolutely justified.

No punishments will be handed out today.
This report is now locked.

Regards,
asta
Internal Affairs Manager

« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 04:28:11 am by asta »
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